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    • Time and Eternity #21 – Predestination vs. Freedom to Choose – An Unfortunate Debate Among Christians
  • Death
    • Death #1 – Is the End of Life
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    • Death #6 – Death as Goal
    • Death #7 – Death as Goal
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  • Age of the World
    • Before You Begin–Examine Your Presuppositions
    • Age of the World–START HERE
    • The Age of the World Argument: An Alternative – 1
    • The Age of the World Argument: An Alternative – 2
    • The Age of the World Argument: An Alternative – 3
    • The Age of the World Argument: An Alternative – 4
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    • The Age of the World Argument: An Alternative – 17
  • Evolution’s Contra-faith
    • Evolution’s Contra-Faith #1 – What Is True?
    • Evolution’s Contra-Faith #2 – Darwin’s Dilemma
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    • Evolution’s Contra-Faith #4 – Biased Discovery
    • Evolution’s Contra-Faith #5 – Against Reason
  • Time & Eternity
    • Time and Eternity – Introduction
    • Time & Eternity – #1 Entropic Death or Eternal Rest?
    • Time and Eternity – #2 Where Is God?
    • Time and Eternity – #3 What’s the Difference
    • Time and Eternity – #4 The Grammar of Time and Eternity
    • Time and Eternity – #5 What Is a Timescape?
    • Time and Eternity – #6 Our Limited Timescapes
    • Time and Eternity – #7 The Comprehensive Biblical Timescape
    • Time and Eternity – #8 When We Die . . . Eternity Eclipses Time
    • Time and Eternity – #9 – Complementary Truths – Two Kinds of Life
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    • Time and Eternity #12 – Death In Time or Life in Eternity
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    • Time and Eternity #14 – What Happens To People When They Die? (2)
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    • Death #6 – Death as Goal
    • Death #7 – Death as Goal
    • Death #8 – Death as Goal
    • Death #9 – The Fear of Death
    • Death #10 – The Biblical View of Death
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Death #6 – Death as Goal

12/11/2018 Posted by Dr. Ralph Rohr Uncategorized 4 Comments

Death is not the corruption of the soul in time but its deliverance into the eternal estate of its choosing. The soul is eternal. Its choice is to be with God, or separated from God—eternally. Having been personally tutored by God Himself in Jesus Christ, the apostle Paul describes this death of the earthly body and larger birth of the Christian soul and spirit into God’s eternal presence:

2 Corinthians 5:1-4  For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.  (2)  For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, (3)  inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked.  (4)  For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.

Here is an amazing fact, which many intuit, but are reluctant to pursue and investigate. Just as the fetal body in a mother’s womb with its dependence on a placenta for life support was rejected for the physical form suited for life in the world we presently occupy, so also this physical body, when worn out and no longer serviceable will be rejected for a heavenly body prepared by God and suitable for eternity.

Do we have any evidence that the “end” of the soul is its goal and entry into life rather than its obliteration, like the oxidation and assimilation of the physical body into the earth? Well, yes, we do.

First and foremost, we have the testimony of God Himself in His holy word, the Bible. The Bible will bear authentic testimony to any honestly open minded person who reads it searching for truth. The sad fact is that virtually everyone who rejects or ignores the Christian God has never, and will never, read what He has to say in His word. The Bible is unlike all other monastic musings and religious fabrications of mere men. As G.K. Chesterton said,

“Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried.”

That is to say, men know the Christian path can be strenuous and require self-denial. Therefore, in far too many cases, universal human selfishness predisposes too many sinful people to spurn the exhortations of a loving God and redefine death as eternal nothingness. The truly hellish reality will be to discover that we were wrong and had to live with the consequences of this choice—separation from the love of God—forever. It would be as though my second born twin son still in the womb was clinging to and clawing at the lining of his mother’s womb until the placenta separated so that he was deprived of its life giving oxygen and thus arrived stillborn in this world that should have been his living destiny.

In similar fashion, eternal Paradise with the loving God and Creator of this world is our proper destiny, for it is God’s kindly intention that none of us should perish but that all should repent of wrongdoing and be saved (2 Peter 3:9). All that is needed is that we repent and confess our sinfulness to God and be declared innocent by the sacrifice of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Christ took our punishment in death and gave us His life in eternity. All we have to do is accept the gift. The only requirement to our salvation and eternal security is repentance from our sins and trust in God. It seems, for many, that is too much to ask. It makes me weep!

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  • Bill & Laurie Furrow
    · Reply

    12/22/2018 at 5:17 PM

    Ralph,
    I am thoroughly enjoying your posts on death but I take respectful and friendly issue on a point in this post #6. I do not believe there are any,who are not regenerated, that are honestly seeking God. If so, then there are some who are not honestly seeking God. Hence, what would motivate one to seek God and the other to not? What is it in these people that make them different? The only answer I see is that God ordained(predestined or planned) it that way. Otherwise we would have to say that the one honestly seeking God has something good in him, the desire to find God. And the Bible tells us clearly that there is nothing inheritantly good in man. We are “dead” in our trespasses.
    In His name,
    Cousin Bill

    • Dr. Ralph Rohr
      · Reply

      Author
      01/27/2019 at 4:07 PM

      Bill, your interpretation in the comment on this post is well worded and one that I have heard from many different Christians and Christian authorities. Still, I have difficulty with the notion that we must be “regenerated” (is that the same as salvation?) before we can seek God’s relief from our desperate dilemma, which we share with all people—that is, being “dead” in sin. Maybe you can help me a little with the questions that trouble me here. The answers to some of my questions are obvious and are not meant to insult intelligence, but are simply me trying to find my way through difficulty.
      First, who, or what, accomplishes regeneration? I assume you will answer, God the Holy Spirit?
      Second, what do we learn from 2 Peter 3:9 (cited in the post) and 1 Timothy 2:4, about God’s desire, or wish, or will, for “all” people. Is God’s will contradicted by His ordaining only “some” to be regenerated and saved, according to this common view among Christians that you mention?
      Third, though the condition of the natural man is under sin (Psalm 51:3-5) and condemned by the very law he attempts to use for his own salvation, does this mean that he cannot desire the relief that only God can provide, as, for instance, a drowning man in a stormy sea will eagerly grasp a lifeline thrown to him? For instance, I am thinking here of the Philippian jailer’s cry (Acts 16:30) as he was about to commit suicide. Was he spiritually regenerated before he asked, “What must I do to be saved?” How shall I interpret God’s invitations to those who are thirsty for living water (Isaiah 55:1ff. and Rev 22:17)? Must God regenerate them before they experience thirst and hear His call?
      Fourth, does being dead in sin and trespass refer to spiritual death or physical death? I am pretty sure you would answer “spiritual death.” Is the physical man unable to hear or reason or recognize the peril of his own personal physical death or the warnings of God about it? If he is unable to think thus, then why would God appeal to him, as He does in Isaiah 1:18, 41:1, 41:21, 43:26, and Micah 6:2? God makes His indictments and appeals to all Israel, yet only a remnant is saved (Romans 9:27).
      These are some questions that trouble me, and I wonder if the answers may be a bit more complex than the familiar and widespread view that you have shared. If I add to the mix God’s all-encompassing eternal present tense perspective, how does that influence my interpretation of Romans 3:9-11 (which, I assume, is one place the common view you mention is derived from)? It is good to know that our LORD’s thoughts are not limited by my thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9).

  • Ginger
    · Reply

    01/28/2019 at 6:33 AM

    2 Corinthians 5:8 indicates that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. So, why does 1 Thessalonians 4:16 tell us the dead in Christ shall rise first if we’re already with the Lord? Is it our dust that rises? Perplexing……
    1Thessalonians 4 suggests I’ll be asleep in Christ until the Lord’s return, but I thought I’d already be present with him upon my earthly death and that I’d be clothed with a heavenly body. ???

    • Dr. Ralph Rohr
      · Reply

      Author
      01/28/2019 at 6:38 AM

      THE WORD:
      2Co 5:1-8 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. (2) For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, (3) inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. (4) For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. (5) Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. (6) Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord– (7) for we walk by faith, not by sight– (8) we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
      1Th 4:13-18 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. (14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. (15) For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. (16) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. (17) Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. (18) Therefore comfort one another with these words.

      MY THOUGHTS:
      Paul’s paragraph is specifically for those who might grieve without hope for their loved ones who have died. His purpose is to relieve hopeless grieving due to their being uninformed (verse 13) where the Greek word agnoeo literally means “ignorance”. Also clearly stated in verse 18 is Paul’s intention that his words here “comfort” his readers, not confuse them. So, if we are confused by comparing this scripture with others (like 2 Corinthians 5:8), perhaps we need to re-examine both passages.
      Simple reading and exegesis of 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 clearly shows that Paul is talking about a permanent “house” body from the Lord in Heaven for the human spirit, and this permanent Heavenly body replaces the temporary “tent” body that we leave worn out at its death (verse 1) in this fallen world. Also clearly, Paul does not expect any interval between loss of the temporary “tent” body and the permanent heavenly “house” body (verses 2-4). Hence to be at home with the Lord is not merely spiritual presence but a bodily presence in Heaven.
      Part of the problem we have with 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is the tendency to take it out of the context of verses 13-18. If we read it thoroughly and without the all too familiar picture of people coming up out of the ground when Jesus returns, then the bare message becomes more obvious.
      Note that this “out of the ground” picture is not found in Thessalonians. Though Jesus uses the analogy of a grain of wheat falling into the ground and dying to “bear much fruit,” He is picturing the consequence of His own death and sacrifice for our salvation, not an end times scenario of bodily dust rising out of the earth. Also, Paul uses the picture of a seed sown to illustrate the transformation that occurs for the new creation in Christ, not an end times scenario (1 Corinthians 15:37).
      Here are the bare facts of all that 1Th 4:13-18 says,
      The Lord will return – verse 2.
      Those who have fallen asleep (died) in Jesus will be coming with Him – verse 2.
      Those alive on earth at Jesus’ return will not precede those who have died – verse 3.
      The Lord’s descent is described accompanied by shout, voice of archangel, trumpet).
      The position (the place in the order of end time events) of all those who have died before the Lord’s return is reiterated—they will rise first (before those alive on earth at the Lord’s return)!
      That this is not describing a part of the contemporary sequence of events when the Lord returns is made clear by the fact that God will bring with Jesus those who have previously fallen asleep in Jesus (verse 2). So there need be no concern about those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. They are with Jesus (just as 2 Corinthians 5:8 says), they return with Jesus, and indeed they “will rise first” whenever they die, whether past, present, or future to the Thessalonians to whom Paul is writing at the time. Since Paul wrote these words by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, many have fallen asleep in Jesus and are at home with the Lord and will return with Him (Revelation 19:14).
      Finally, those who are alive on earth at the Lord’s return are caught up (raptured) with those who have previously died in Jesus and are returning with Him, and all are forever together with the Lord.
      There is one piece of grammatical evidence that may support the above understanding of the passage in 1Th 4:13-18. That is, that only two verbs in the passage are rendered in the Greek middle voice (which is different from the active or passive voice that we are familiar with in English). The middle voice in Classical Greek called special attention to the subject . . . such that the subjects (“the Lord” and “the dead in Christ” in verse 16) are seen participating in the action in relation to themselves somehow.” (See Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics: Exegetical Syntax of the Greek New Testament, p.415, 1996, Zondervan Publishing.)
      There is debate among scholars as to how much this sense of involvement of the subject in the action of the verb (descend by Christ and rise by the dead) was retained in the koine Greek of Paul’s time, but it is interesting that this voice is applied to both Christ’s actions and the dead’s actions, suggesting that the dead are working in concert with Christ as they return with Him, and not simply rising from the earth as a consequence of His return.

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    • Time & Eternity – #1 Entropic Death or Eternal Rest?
    • Time and Eternity – #2 Where Is God?
    • Time and Eternity – #3 What’s the Difference
    • Time and Eternity – #4 The Grammar of Time and Eternity
    • Time and Eternity – #5 What Is a Timescape?
    • Time and Eternity – #6 Our Limited Timescapes
    • Time and Eternity – #7 The Comprehensive Biblical Timescape
    • Time and Eternity – #8 When We Die . . . Eternity Eclipses Time
    • Time and Eternity – #9 – Complementary Truths – Two Kinds of Life
    • Time and Eternity – #10 – From Eternity Into Time, and Back
    • Time and Eternity #11 – The Bible In Time and Eternity
    • Time and Eternity #12 – Death In Time or Life in Eternity
    • Time and Eternity #13 – What Happens To People When They Die? (1)
    • Time and Eternity #14 – What Happens To People When They Die? (2)
    • Time and Eternity #15 – Predestination vs. Freedom to Choose – An Unfortunate Debate Among Christians
    • Time and Eternity #16 – Predestination vs. Freedom to Choose – An Unfortunate Debate Among Christians
    • Time and Eternity #17 – Predestination vs. Freedom to Choose – An Unfortunate Debate Among Christians
    • Time and Eternity #18 – Predestination vs. Freedom to Choose – An Unfortunate Debate Among Christians
    • Time and Eternity #19 – Predestination vs. Freedom to Choose – An Unfortunate Debate Among Christians
    • Time and Eternity #20 – Predestination vs. Freedom to Choose – An Unfortunate Debate Among Christians
    • Time and Eternity #21 – Predestination vs. Freedom to Choose – An Unfortunate Debate Among Christians
  • Death
    • Death #1 – Is the End of Life
    • Death #2 – Death as Terminus
    • Death #3 – Death as Terminus
    • Death #4 – Death as Terminus
    • Death #5 – Death as Goal
    • Death #6 – Death as Goal
    • Death #7 – Death as Goal
    • Death #8 – Death as Goal
    • Death #9 – The Fear of Death
    • Death #10 – The Biblical View of Death
    • Death #11 – Just Falling Asleep and Waking Up
  • Books by Ralph
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